website/www/static/docs/2023-01-31_KU-Lueven_Sandler-Karen_Software-Rights-Accountability-and-Autonomy-in-Our-Technology.txt

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foreign

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good afternoon ladies and gentlemen

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welcome to this lecture which is somehow

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a warming up for the big official

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celebration of patterns Saints Day next

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Thursday

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since some time we know the names of

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five people who will be awarded an

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honorary doctorate because they are

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considered really as front-runners in

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their field as well as advocates of

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society on different issues and one of

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these names is and that's thanks to the

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nomination by the students delegation Dr

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Karen Sandler sitting here

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it was the vice Rector of research that

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asked me to do this introduction and I

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do this with great pleasure because also

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the topic is something I'm really

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interested in

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Karen is a firm believer of software

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freedom and in my own research field I

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should also maybe

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give some information on myself I am a

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professor of intellectual property law

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so I teach students about the legal

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protection of amongst other things

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software and I also have some parts on

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OPEC explaining the difference between

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proprietary software and open source

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software I'm also head of ctip ctip is

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the center for I.T and IRP rights and

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the law faculty and we do a lot of

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research not only on open source but

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also the data issues property of data

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and so on personal non-personal data

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especially in relation to health and I

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already admitted to Karen that our

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researchers or many of them have signed

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a letter to the I.T responsibles at this

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University that we should switch to big

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blue button but uh and I read in your uh

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article that that is also one of your

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favorite programs

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so as you all I am eagerly looking

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forward to hearing the insights of Karen

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but before giving her the microphone I

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should say a few words on her career I

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will be brief because otherwise I risk

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using up the field lecture time and that

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is not something I want to do Karen

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begin her career as a lawyer after

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having received a law degree from

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Columbia Law School she also holds a

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Bachelor of Science in engineering from

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the Cooper Union

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amongst many other things she currently

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is executive director of the software

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Freedom Conservancy which is a

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non-profit organization that supports

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initiatives that make technology more

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inclusive and promotes free and open

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source software false

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a mouthful of words but it in essence

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all boils down to two big words software

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freedom

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Karen has earned numerous Awards and

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recognitions but I invite you to check

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her website and explore these things

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yourself

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Karen it is truly an honor to have you

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with us today and without a further Ado

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uh gladly invite you to to take the

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floor

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Professor that was such a wonderful

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introduction

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I I would like to hear you give this

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talk

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maybe some other time we'll we should

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jointly do one

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um so I'm so happy to be here um with

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you today I'm I'm going to give you a um

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a story about myself and my work and how

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I got involved in software freedom and

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how that impacts our my view of how

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technology is in our society and where

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we should go from here

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so to start I need to tell you something

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about myself that I still to this day

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even though I have done probably 15

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years worth of advocacy on this

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particular Point uh always talking about

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my medical condition is is always a

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little stressful but I have a heart

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condition I literally have a big heart

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it's called hypertrophic cardiomyopathy

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and my heart isn't just

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um big it's really thick and so it's

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really stiff when it meets and what that

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means is that I am at a very high risk

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of suddenly dying the medical term is

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actually sudden death

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so that's okay because I have a

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pacemaker defibrillator that is

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implanted in my body this picture is

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actually the pacemaker defibrillator

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that I used to have that you can see

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kind of a dent in it that's because it

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was where it was kind of pried out

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um and I have one here if anyone is

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curious can see it after this is the

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model I have now which is a different

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device

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um so when I got this device I was

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astounded by how little the doctors knew

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about the technology that they were

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plant and planting into patients bodies

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they had not for one minute thought

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about the fact that there was software

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on those devices

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and it had not even occurred to them

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that you could

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interact with that technology and that

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anyone other than the medical device

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manufacturers could have any control

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over it

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because I was an engineer turned lawyer

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my first questions were about you know

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can I see the software on my device I

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mean I wanted to know about the safety

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and efficacy and to do that what better

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way than to review the software on my

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device in addition to whatever other

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materials that I could find and of

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course what I found which won't surprise

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anybody oh let's take a poll how many

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people here are engineering or computer

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science students

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so that's like I'd say like a third

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maybe even more

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um anybody here studying law

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oh amazing that's like a quarter

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um what else should I ask

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to know who else is here

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uh students raise your hand

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and that's like a third and uh any

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faculty members

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so like a few okay this is amazing

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welcome

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um so normally uh audiences kind of

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cluster in one area or another and this

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is really cool because you're all here

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in one place

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um and so it with with my background

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um you know this launched me into a

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whole research area and because I was a

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I brought the legal skills I decided

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that um well first my inner engineer

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took over and so I asked the company for

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the source code of course with no avail

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going through phone trees talking to

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people the all of my medical

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professionals the doctors that I worked

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with and the nurse practitioners

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um couldn't really understand why I was

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asking these questions or even what my

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questions meant and ultimately I kept

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getting shoved into various phone trees

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to no avail and being told that someone

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would get back to me and nobody ever did

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um so I decided to file a bunch of

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Freedom of Information Act requests in

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the United States to see what I could

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find about the FDA process in the United

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States the Food and Drug Administration

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process about these devices and what I

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found was that there really wasn't very

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much review at all on the software that

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in fact in the United States we relied

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on the companies who test these devices

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to provide the reports about the safety

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of the software on the devices

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um and so this launched me into an

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existential

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crisis about my body the night before I

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became I but before my surgery where I

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got the defibrillator I had a party

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which was a cyborg becoming party

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I thought well if this is going to

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happen we're gonna do it right and I

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realized that as this software was

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becoming a part of my life and my body

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it also had to become a part of my work

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and so I started I I used to think that

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open source was really cool

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um raise your hand if you are familiar

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with the term open source

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that is almost everybody raise your hand

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if you're familiar with the term free

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software

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that's

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almost everybody again this is so great

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I'm gonna skip this

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fantastic anyway because of all of and

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sorry for people in the live stream

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um but there is a lot of resources go to

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sfconservancy.org if you click on the um

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the learn more about Vizio button you'll

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see and I'll get to that later but

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there's a lot of introductory resources

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um so so I work at the software Freedom

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Conservancy where I was a co-founder

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software Freedom Conservancy is a

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us-based charitable organization where

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we have three major areas of our work

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the first one is we we cannot expect

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people to move away from proprietary

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software if they do not have

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alternatives to move to so we are a

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fiscal sponsor and we have a lot of

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member projects that are developing free

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and open source solutions that we can

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use instead of um

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proprietary software and so that's our

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first branch

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our second branch is called outreachy

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and um and this came about because as

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um as

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as people in a deeply technical field we

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realize that that field was not well

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represented

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um it started out personally where where

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folks realized that

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um uh

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when we ask people to apply to programs

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and participate in our events there

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simply were no women and personally for

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me I noticed that at so many conferences

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I was the only woman in really a sea of

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people and it was uh it was it was

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steeply surprising

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and uh and often off-putting the number

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of sexist comments that were made

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assumptions about my capabilities were

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very demoralizing I would stand next to

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another executive director of a

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non-profit in Tech who was a man and

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people would assume that he had a

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technical background and I didn't but he

00:11:26.640 --> 00:11:29.160
was a marketer and I was an engineer it

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was very surprising and so and so not

00:11:32.579 --> 00:11:34.140
just not from my personal experiences

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but but from the experiences the

00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:36.980
community

00:11:36.980 --> 00:11:40.320
a woman named Marina zurahin skya who

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unfortunately died in June of breast

00:11:43.560 --> 00:11:46.500
cancer after a wonderful three-year

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fight

00:11:47.540 --> 00:11:50.399
she founded this this program with the

00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:52.019
gnome foundation and I came soon after

00:11:52.019 --> 00:11:53.940
and we built it up together this program

00:11:53.940 --> 00:11:56.579
provides internships to people who are

00:11:56.579 --> 00:11:58.500
subject to systemic bias and who are

00:11:58.500 --> 00:12:00.779
impacted by underrepresentation and the

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idea is that but our experience was as

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women and the dearth of women in

00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:09.079
technology and in the field was really

00:12:09.079 --> 00:12:13.079
Stark but the Discrimination runs deep

00:12:13.079 --> 00:12:18.420
in technology in general and in order to

00:12:18.420 --> 00:12:21.180
Rectify it we need to do something

00:12:21.180 --> 00:12:25.200
actively to invite people technology not

00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:26.060
only

00:12:26.060 --> 00:12:30.120
has a horrible impact by reinforcing the

00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.540
biases of people who make it but we know

00:12:33.540 --> 00:12:36.000
that our technology will not serve

00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.399
everyone until it is made by everyone

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and so giving people a chance to

00:12:41.040 --> 00:12:42.899
overcome the biases and discrimination

00:12:42.899 --> 00:12:45.360
that they have experienced has become an

00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:47.339
important part of the program that we do

00:12:47.339 --> 00:12:48.720
so we call it outreachy it's an

00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:49.920
internship program where we do paid

00:12:49.920 --> 00:12:53.279
remote internships twice a year with

00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.980
open source communities students are

00:12:55.980 --> 00:12:57.540
very welcome but you don't have to be a

00:12:57.540 --> 00:12:59.940
student to apply to it just tell us

00:12:59.940 --> 00:13:01.860
about the systemic bias and

00:13:01.860 --> 00:13:03.300
underrepresentation that you've

00:13:03.300 --> 00:13:05.880
experienced and that's the eligibility

00:13:05.880 --> 00:13:08.459
and then it's it's an amazing mentorship

00:13:08.459 --> 00:13:09.540
program

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um anyway it's uh it's been running for

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over 10 years now and this summer we'll

00:13:13.920 --> 00:13:16.500
get to a thousand interns I am really

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really excited about that

00:13:18.540 --> 00:13:22.200
um and so uh that is the second area the

00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:25.019
third area of the work that we do at

00:13:25.019 --> 00:13:27.420
software Freedom Conservancy is is

00:13:27.420 --> 00:13:29.880
focusing on copy left raise your hand if

00:13:29.880 --> 00:13:31.920
you are familiar with the with copy left

00:13:31.920 --> 00:13:33.360
licensing

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okay so that's about half of the

00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:37.920
audience copied left licensing is a form

00:13:37.920 --> 00:13:40.019
of free and open source software so it's

00:13:40.019 --> 00:13:43.680
a subset of licenses that are are free

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and open copy left licenses are licenses

00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:48.779
that have a provision that people call

00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:51.660
reciprocal detractors used to call it

00:13:51.660 --> 00:13:54.300
viral until viral was cool

00:13:54.300 --> 00:13:56.639
um and it basically our licenses that

00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:58.860
say you can do whatever you want with

00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:01.380
this software you can study it you can

00:14:01.380 --> 00:14:03.240
share it you can make changes you can

00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.100
share those changes but

00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:07.139
if you distribute it or share those

00:14:07.139 --> 00:14:09.839
changes you must do it under the same

00:14:09.839 --> 00:14:12.000
license and you must give rights to

00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:15.480
everybody who receives it and so with at

00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:18.240
software Freedom Conservancy we are the

00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.459
folks that stand up for these licenses

00:14:20.459 --> 00:14:22.740
when companies violate them and I'll get

00:14:22.740 --> 00:14:24.959
more to that a little bit later

00:14:24.959 --> 00:14:27.899
and so doing this work at software

00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:30.420
Freedom Conservancy you know it followed

00:14:30.420 --> 00:14:32.459
on that

00:14:32.459 --> 00:14:35.940
um what I the trying to find ways to

00:14:35.940 --> 00:14:37.200
empower

00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:40.860
people impacted by technology in the

00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:42.540
face of the helplessness that I felt

00:14:42.540 --> 00:14:44.579
about my defibrillator I just wanted to

00:14:44.579 --> 00:14:46.980
see what was inside my own body and it

00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:49.440
was really about the accountability of

00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:51.480
it the auditability of it you know if

00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:53.220
you can't review it how do you know it's

00:14:53.220 --> 00:14:55.500
safe right if you can't test it how do

00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:57.180
you know it's safe

00:14:57.180 --> 00:14:58.139
um

00:14:58.139 --> 00:15:00.899
so I for me it was all about this kind

00:15:00.899 --> 00:15:03.959
of transparency argument and then what's

00:15:03.959 --> 00:15:05.760
been so fascinating is that as I've

00:15:05.760 --> 00:15:08.040
lived with my device

00:15:08.040 --> 00:15:10.139
different things in my life have come up

00:15:10.139 --> 00:15:13.380
from time to time that have changed my

00:15:13.380 --> 00:15:15.120
understanding of the ways in which

00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:17.760
technology impacts people this is a

00:15:17.760 --> 00:15:19.920
picture of me when I was almost I think

00:15:19.920 --> 00:15:21.839
I was nine months pregnant

00:15:21.839 --> 00:15:25.620
um I it was a fun trip but uh but it was

00:15:25.620 --> 00:15:26.820
the very last one

00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:30.420
um but yeah so when I was pregnant uh

00:15:30.420 --> 00:15:32.579
because I have a heart condition my

00:15:32.579 --> 00:15:35.220
heart did no sorry I have a heart

00:15:35.220 --> 00:15:36.600
condition but my heart was doing

00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:38.639
something that normal pregnant like

00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:40.079
people without heart condition pregnant

00:15:40.079 --> 00:15:42.480
women normally do my heart was

00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:44.160
palpitating which is something that

00:15:44.160 --> 00:15:46.199
happens to a quarter to a third of all

00:15:46.199 --> 00:15:48.779
women who have babies some people are

00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:50.519
nodding in the audience because they've

00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:52.320
either experience this or know people

00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:53.699
who've experienced it it's very very

00:15:53.699 --> 00:15:57.380
common but because I had a defibrillator

00:15:57.380 --> 00:16:01.680
and I was palpitating my defibrillator

00:16:01.680 --> 00:16:03.660
thought that my palpitations were a

00:16:03.660 --> 00:16:05.820
dangerous Rhythm and that I needed to be

00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:08.639
shocked and so my defibrillator shocked

00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:09.380
me

00:16:09.380 --> 00:16:13.019
unnecessarily multiple times and the

00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:16.199
only way to stop it from unnecessarily

00:16:16.199 --> 00:16:18.240
treating me and shocking me over and

00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.060
over was to go on drugs to slow my heart

00:16:21.060 --> 00:16:22.440
rate down

00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:25.320
so I went on those drugs which were okay

00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:27.180
it was tough it was hard to walk up a

00:16:27.180 --> 00:16:28.380
flight of stairs

00:16:28.380 --> 00:16:30.899
um during that time but it was temporary

00:16:30.899 --> 00:16:34.380
I took those drugs it was fine and the

00:16:34.380 --> 00:16:36.060
baby was born being pregnant as a

00:16:36.060 --> 00:16:38.940
temporary condition and here we are but

00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:45.060
as I thought about it I realized that

00:16:45.060 --> 00:16:46.279
15

00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:49.259
of defibrillators go to people under the

00:16:49.259 --> 00:16:50.940
age of 65.

00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:56.639
only 15 percent and only 44 go to women

00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:00.060
so the set of people who are pregnant

00:17:00.060 --> 00:17:03.740
with defibrillators is teeny teeny tiny

00:17:03.740 --> 00:17:06.839
my use case was simply not something

00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:08.280
that was contemplated by the

00:17:08.280 --> 00:17:10.260
manufacturers of the device

00:17:10.260 --> 00:17:13.439
no one at the device manufacturer wanted

00:17:13.439 --> 00:17:16.559
pregnant people getting shocked what a

00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:18.600
nightmare right and nobody wants that

00:17:18.600 --> 00:17:20.459
you'll make medical devices to help

00:17:20.459 --> 00:17:23.280
people not to put them in trouble but I

00:17:23.280 --> 00:17:25.020
was an edge case something that hadn't

00:17:25.020 --> 00:17:27.660
been contemplated and consequently

00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:30.120
because my use case wasn't the primary

00:17:30.120 --> 00:17:32.820
use case I was out of luck there was

00:17:32.820 --> 00:17:35.280
nothing I could do I couldn't get

00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:36.720
together with all the other pregnant

00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:39.240
people and find out if we could adjust

00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:41.460
the algorithms on the software or take

00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:43.620
other precautions to try to evaluate if

00:17:43.620 --> 00:17:45.299
we could edit the software to make it

00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:46.440
different

00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:48.900
I just had to stick with whatever the

00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:51.720
device manufacturer told me and that was

00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:55.500
that and uh that helplessness made me

00:17:55.500 --> 00:17:58.020
realize that it wasn't just about the

00:17:58.020 --> 00:18:00.419
transparency and auditability of the

00:18:00.419 --> 00:18:04.200
source code but it is about power it is

00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:07.679
about control it is about the ability to

00:18:07.679 --> 00:18:10.380
do something about your own situation

00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:13.919
and having this having any software that

00:18:13.919 --> 00:18:16.740
you rely on isn't about whether

00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:19.140
something can go wrong it's about when

00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:21.120
it will go wrong I used to give talks

00:18:21.120 --> 00:18:22.380
about this and I used to have to give

00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:24.600
all of these examples of you know I had

00:18:24.600 --> 00:18:26.940
pictures of hacked cars and pictures of

00:18:26.940 --> 00:18:29.220
you know which had funny pictures of

00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:31.320
people who thought the car that thought

00:18:31.320 --> 00:18:32.700
it was in park but it was going 100

00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:35.220
miles an hour you know or whatever and

00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:37.679
all these examples new ones every year

00:18:37.679 --> 00:18:39.480
but I don't need to do that anymore

00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:42.539
because there are so many examples of

00:18:42.539 --> 00:18:47.520
software being controlled either through

00:18:47.520 --> 00:18:50.280
um security research for studies through

00:18:50.280 --> 00:18:53.280
actual malicious attacks or elsewhere in

00:18:53.280 --> 00:18:54.960
our society that I don't even need to

00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:56.520
establish it to you because we all know

00:18:56.520 --> 00:18:59.360
how dire it is and it is not about

00:18:59.360 --> 00:19:01.440
whether something will go wrong it's

00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:03.660
about what it will go wrong and what

00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:05.580
will we be able to do about it when it

00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:08.400
does will we have to wait for the

00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:11.039
company that has the problem to admit

00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:13.500
that there's an error and then try to

00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:15.299
figure out what's wrong or will we have

00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:17.820
control over that technology ourselves

00:19:17.820 --> 00:19:20.520
so that we can do something about it and

00:19:20.520 --> 00:19:22.500
build organizational structures to be

00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:25.740
able to to take action

00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:29.340
now again so many examples that come up

00:19:29.340 --> 00:19:31.980
every year one came up this last year

00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:33.660
that I wanted to highlight because it

00:19:33.660 --> 00:19:35.039
was so poignant

00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:36.780
um these are pictures of patients who

00:19:36.780 --> 00:19:39.960
had an implant called Second Sight

00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:43.200
um it was a an ocular implant that

00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.720
allowed people who previously had lost

00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:49.799
Vision to see not you know to see some

00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:51.419
range of vision

00:19:51.419 --> 00:19:56.880
um the um the person on your right was

00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:02.100
uh was uh was on the subway she recounts

00:20:02.100 --> 00:20:06.780
the day when her implant stopped working

00:20:06.780 --> 00:20:09.240
the company that made these devices

00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:11.520
second site

00:20:11.520 --> 00:20:14.340
had run out of funding it was a startup

00:20:14.340 --> 00:20:16.140
it was very promising and had early

00:20:16.140 --> 00:20:19.440
investment but ultimately it did not

00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.740
have financial support and so the

00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:25.620
software updates stopped coming and that

00:20:25.620 --> 00:20:27.539
Hardware stopped working

00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:31.080
people who could see could no longer see

00:20:31.080 --> 00:20:34.200
these people have devices implanted in

00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:36.600
their bodies they have implants in their

00:20:36.600 --> 00:20:39.900
eyes that it is dangerous to remove that

00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:42.539
do nothing because they can't be updated

00:20:42.539 --> 00:20:45.419
or and can't be repaired

00:20:45.419 --> 00:20:47.640
and what's fascinating about it is that

00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:51.120
these devices could absolutely work if

00:20:51.120 --> 00:20:54.240
they can only have access to the

00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:56.520
software if they could only update it

00:20:56.520 --> 00:21:00.179
and uh it's not just this one company's

00:21:00.179 --> 00:21:02.340
experience the same thing has happened

00:21:02.340 --> 00:21:05.340
in other areas Cochlear implants there

00:21:05.340 --> 00:21:07.140
is a whole range of medical devices

00:21:07.140 --> 00:21:09.480
where this has happened where startups

00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:11.400
have developed exciting promising new

00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:14.940
technology and then relied on VC and

00:21:14.940 --> 00:21:18.600
other investment and has you know those

00:21:18.600 --> 00:21:21.240
patients are just abandoned you could

00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.840
have a whole other talk on standards and

00:21:24.840 --> 00:21:27.360
how the the hardware component and and

00:21:27.360 --> 00:21:29.720
other kinds of communication components

00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:32.659
absolutely need to be standardized

00:21:32.659 --> 00:21:35.460
but the software component is one

00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:37.860
important piece of this and it's not

00:21:37.860 --> 00:21:40.740
just this tremendous number of medical

00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:44.340
devices that are in this situation it's

00:21:44.340 --> 00:21:46.679
almost every other device I like talking

00:21:46.679 --> 00:21:48.900
about my medical device because it's

00:21:48.900 --> 00:21:51.059
deeply personal I can tell you my

00:21:51.059 --> 00:21:52.440
experience and I can tell you what I

00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:54.960
know but it's also a really easy

00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:58.140
metaphor it's so critical to my life

00:21:58.140 --> 00:22:00.480
it's literally sewn into my body and

00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:02.220
screwed into my heart

00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:04.320
but it's not the only software that I

00:22:04.320 --> 00:22:07.440
rely on every day and the thing is that

00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.780
we don't even know which software is

00:22:09.780 --> 00:22:11.460
going to be our most critical software

00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:14.280
we don't know what software we're going

00:22:14.280 --> 00:22:15.480
to rely on that is going to fail because

00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:19.080
we rely on so much software for every

00:22:19.080 --> 00:22:21.240
part of our life lives for our most

00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:24.780
intimate Communications for our banking

00:22:24.780 --> 00:22:27.960
for everything and we are not in control

00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:29.520
as

00:22:29.520 --> 00:22:34.380
as individuals as a public of a vast

00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:37.440
majority of that software

00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:40.440
um so uh and and one of the things that

00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:43.020
really astounds me is that a lot of

00:22:43.020 --> 00:22:45.299
companies that are Distributing their

00:22:45.299 --> 00:22:48.299
software are doing so without ever

00:22:48.299 --> 00:22:50.940
having the source code of the software

00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:52.919
that they ship themselves so they have a

00:22:52.919 --> 00:22:54.600
vendor that gives them the software they

00:22:54.600 --> 00:22:56.580
put it on their products they get it out

00:22:56.580 --> 00:22:58.919
into market and

00:22:58.919 --> 00:23:00.720
even if there's a problem those

00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:02.580
companies can't do anything about it and

00:23:02.580 --> 00:23:05.280
so we're left with we're we're left with

00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:06.539
the short end of the stick we're left

00:23:06.539 --> 00:23:09.720
with these devices that don't work and

00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:12.539
um and with uh with software that can't

00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:14.940
be adjusted to our use

00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:16.620
so

00:23:16.620 --> 00:23:19.919
free and open source software is an

00:23:19.919 --> 00:23:22.080
alternative to this because if we had

00:23:22.080 --> 00:23:24.179
access to the source code if we had

00:23:24.179 --> 00:23:26.340
access to that software we would be able

00:23:26.340 --> 00:23:28.260
to change that software we would be able

00:23:28.260 --> 00:23:31.380
to get together even if you are not a

00:23:31.380 --> 00:23:33.240
developer yourself even if you're not

00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:34.980
technical you could work with other

00:23:34.980 --> 00:23:36.980
people to do it you could hire someone

00:23:36.980 --> 00:23:40.980
even if I wanted to hire even if I were

00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:43.320
very wealthy and wanted to hire a

00:23:43.320 --> 00:23:45.539
medical professional to customize my

00:23:45.539 --> 00:23:47.880
defibrillator for me I would be unable

00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:49.320
to do it

00:23:49.320 --> 00:23:53.700
so with free and open source software

00:23:53.700 --> 00:23:56.159
we have a chance free and open source

00:23:56.159 --> 00:23:57.720
software it's funny advocating for

00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.299
software freedom is tough because I

00:24:00.299 --> 00:24:02.460
can't say that open source software is

00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:03.480
better

00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:04.679
can't say that free software There's

00:24:04.679 --> 00:24:06.780
Something Magic about free software

00:24:06.780 --> 00:24:08.880
where if you publish it it's going to be

00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.740
you're going to have a better experience

00:24:10.740 --> 00:24:13.020
it will be safer or better or faster or

00:24:13.020 --> 00:24:15.539
more reliable but what I can say is that

00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:16.860
with free and open source software it

00:24:16.860 --> 00:24:18.960
has a chance we can test it and we can

00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:20.460
do something about it when things go

00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:21.419
wrong

00:24:21.419 --> 00:24:25.260
and so uh

00:24:25.260 --> 00:24:27.440
copy lifted software

00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:30.539
in particular where

00:24:30.539 --> 00:24:34.380
we have this this snowballing nature

00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:36.960
right copy left at software is software

00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:38.700
where if you're if companies are

00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:40.620
Distributing that software they have to

00:24:40.620 --> 00:24:43.640
provide this the source code when asked

00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:46.500
and those rights

00:24:46.500 --> 00:24:50.360
um uh travel with the software and so

00:24:50.360 --> 00:24:53.940
there's copy lifted software in actually

00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:56.460
a ton of devices that are in the market

00:24:56.460 --> 00:24:58.980
you basically can't go anywhere or do

00:24:58.980 --> 00:25:01.080
anything without encountering something

00:25:01.080 --> 00:25:04.140
that has Linux in it right like raise

00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:07.500
your hand if you have an Android phone

00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:10.140
it's like three quarters of the audience

00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:12.419
all right I want out the Apple people

00:25:12.419 --> 00:25:14.640
but you know who you are

00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:18.659
um so uh uh and again it's not

00:25:18.659 --> 00:25:20.880
necessarily that one is is better than

00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:23.100
the other like some devices that are

00:25:23.100 --> 00:25:25.620
proprietary may be more secure right now

00:25:25.620 --> 00:25:28.380
they may be you know they they may have

00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:30.900
features that um that products that are

00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:32.940
based with more free and open source

00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:35.520
software products don't have but over

00:25:35.520 --> 00:25:36.720
time

00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:39.299
we are stuck not being able to make them

00:25:39.299 --> 00:25:41.760
the way we want them to be because they

00:25:41.760 --> 00:25:43.620
are proprietary and they're a complete

00:25:43.620 --> 00:25:45.179
Black Box to us

00:25:45.179 --> 00:25:48.720
so the Linux kernel and other free and

00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:50.220
open source software products are

00:25:50.220 --> 00:25:52.679
software is on more than 80 of mobile

00:25:52.679 --> 00:25:54.299
devices if you count the Android market

00:25:54.299 --> 00:25:56.820
and 90 of super computers in New York

00:25:56.820 --> 00:25:59.640
Stock Exchange runs on it it's basically

00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:03.000
and everywhere it's also in TVs and um

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.059
every product if you go into a lot of

00:26:05.059 --> 00:26:07.740
kitchens and homes you'll find lots and

00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:10.080
lots of devices now I mentioned TVs

00:26:10.080 --> 00:26:11.580
because

00:26:11.580 --> 00:26:14.580
um this is a Vizio TV

00:26:14.580 --> 00:26:16.799
um and uh

00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:18.860
software Freedom Conservancy sued them

00:26:18.860 --> 00:26:21.720
and the reason that we sued them was

00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:24.779
because we wanted to use

00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:28.440
some Vizio TVs and they have copy left

00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:31.200
it software in it so we wanted to use

00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:33.360
those TVs for a variety of things we

00:26:33.360 --> 00:26:34.320
have a few

00:26:34.320 --> 00:26:35.600
um uh

00:26:35.600 --> 00:26:37.620
some grants that we had written that

00:26:37.620 --> 00:26:39.779
we'd hope to be able to use these these

00:26:39.779 --> 00:26:44.539
TVs for but when we when we got the TVs

00:26:44.539 --> 00:26:48.480
we uh well we first got TV

00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:50.520
well we've got the original we were just

00:26:50.520 --> 00:26:53.039
like got some Vizio TVs and they had no

00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:55.620
um no uh no Source or an offer for

00:26:55.620 --> 00:26:57.360
source and we worked with Vizio to try

00:26:57.360 --> 00:26:59.100
to get into compliance

00:26:59.100 --> 00:27:01.980
um and uh after years of talking to them

00:27:01.980 --> 00:27:04.080
um they had provided some incomplete

00:27:04.080 --> 00:27:05.520
source code but had not come into

00:27:05.520 --> 00:27:07.799
compliance yet and years later when we

00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:09.659
went to buy some more TVs to do the

00:27:09.659 --> 00:27:12.360
product project we wanted to do they had

00:27:12.360 --> 00:27:13.380
no

00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:15.720
Source or offer for source so copyleft

00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:17.640
licenses require that you either have to

00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:19.440
provide the source code along with the

00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:21.000
distribution so if you buy a TV it's got

00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:23.159
to have the source code on it and if it

00:27:23.159 --> 00:27:24.779
doesn't have the source code then you

00:27:24.779 --> 00:27:26.220
have to at least provide an offer you

00:27:26.220 --> 00:27:27.960
have to tell people that it's there and

00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:29.159
you have to tell them how they can get

00:27:29.159 --> 00:27:30.480
it

00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.419
um and these TVs didn't have

00:27:33.419 --> 00:27:35.220
either

00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:38.039
um so even after us having talked to

00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:39.779
them they were just flagrantly ignoring

00:27:39.779 --> 00:27:42.179
their obligations and so we at software

00:27:42.179 --> 00:27:44.580
Freedom Conservancy filed a lawsuit

00:27:44.580 --> 00:27:46.799
but this lawsuit that we filed was a

00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:49.020
consumer rights lawsuit

00:27:49.020 --> 00:27:52.320
the lawsuit was basically uh we we filed

00:27:52.320 --> 00:27:55.860
it as a purchaser of televisions which

00:27:55.860 --> 00:27:58.919
uh with respect to copy left licensing I

00:27:58.919 --> 00:28:00.960
think has never been done before and we

00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:05.700
said that because the license the um the

00:28:05.700 --> 00:28:09.059
licenses of the software on the TVs

00:28:09.059 --> 00:28:11.460
gives rights to third parties it says

00:28:11.460 --> 00:28:15.539
that the um uh that all third parties

00:28:15.539 --> 00:28:18.000
will have a have a right where you have

00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.740
to make sure that they receive or can

00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:21.960
get the source code and that you must

00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:24.480
show them the um these terms so that

00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.640
they know that they have this right

00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.539
um and so our lawsuit says that um that

00:28:30.539 --> 00:28:32.460
because we have this right they have to

00:28:32.460 --> 00:28:35.760
give us the source code which is also a

00:28:35.760 --> 00:28:37.320
a third it's called third party

00:28:37.320 --> 00:28:39.960
beneficiary in in the United States and

00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:42.000
it's a contract law claim rather than a

00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:43.679
copyright claim

00:28:43.679 --> 00:28:46.200
um and we uh we asked for what we call

00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:49.559
specific performance which is uh when

00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:52.200
you bring a lawsuit you can ask for

00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:54.240
um for money usually you can say look

00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.760
I've been injured here somebody wronged

00:28:56.760 --> 00:28:59.760
me and uh and the way to handle it is

00:28:59.760 --> 00:29:01.620
that they need to compensate me and most

00:29:01.620 --> 00:29:03.779
consumer rights lawsuits that you hear

00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:05.760
about are class actions where they get

00:29:05.760 --> 00:29:07.500
settlements and everybody gets a payout

00:29:07.500 --> 00:29:10.380
of ten dollars or whatever but the

00:29:10.380 --> 00:29:12.659
amount in whole is great because it it's

00:29:12.659 --> 00:29:14.340
a big penalty overall and it gets

00:29:14.340 --> 00:29:16.620
companies to change but what we're

00:29:16.620 --> 00:29:18.720
asking for is a little bit different in

00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:20.700
this case it's a contract case and what

00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:23.399
we're asking for is the actual excuse me

00:29:23.399 --> 00:29:25.740
the actual software itself

00:29:25.740 --> 00:29:26.580
um

00:29:26.580 --> 00:29:28.679
so uh so we want the complete and

00:29:28.679 --> 00:29:30.299
corresponding source code which is what

00:29:30.299 --> 00:29:31.860
the license says that we're able to do

00:29:31.860 --> 00:29:33.779
and the script we should be able to get

00:29:33.779 --> 00:29:35.580
and the scripts to control compilation

00:29:35.580 --> 00:29:38.159
and installation so we should be able to

00:29:38.159 --> 00:29:39.840
replace the software on the TV the

00:29:39.840 --> 00:29:42.299
license says so and we want to do it and

00:29:42.299 --> 00:29:45.179
Vizio didn't even provide any offer for

00:29:45.179 --> 00:29:46.799
Source or the source itself

00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:51.059
and so uh Vizio tried to try to get rid

00:29:51.059 --> 00:29:52.559
of it by saying oh these people at

00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:54.360
software Freedom Conservancy they're

00:29:54.360 --> 00:29:56.039
really bringing a copyright case but

00:29:56.039 --> 00:29:58.320
they're doing all this tap dancing to

00:29:58.320 --> 00:30:01.440
make it seem like a contract case but so

00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:03.179
they removed it to

00:30:03.179 --> 00:30:04.860
um to federal court in the United States

00:30:04.860 --> 00:30:07.200
and the federal judge said actually

00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:09.419
these people have a claim this is cut

00:30:09.419 --> 00:30:12.059
this this sounds reasonable so it's been

00:30:12.059 --> 00:30:13.860
romantic back to State Court this stuff

00:30:13.860 --> 00:30:16.200
takes forever it'll probably be a long

00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:17.940
time before there's any resolution or

00:30:17.940 --> 00:30:19.620
movement in it but I wanted to talk

00:30:19.620 --> 00:30:21.539
about it because we're bringing these

00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:25.200
novel actions to connect the fact that

00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.899
um that people have to think about their

00:30:27.899 --> 00:30:30.360
technology in terms of how it impacts

00:30:30.360 --> 00:30:32.580
them and their lives that we have to

00:30:32.580 --> 00:30:34.860
recognize that for millions of devices

00:30:34.860 --> 00:30:37.799
we already have a right to see the

00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:40.080
source code on those devices it's there

00:30:40.080 --> 00:30:43.200
it's already there we just have to ask

00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:46.500
for it and we just have to use it and

00:30:46.500 --> 00:30:48.360
it's you know we used to have this is

00:30:48.360 --> 00:30:51.299
like a real like old school I like this

00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:52.860
picture because it reminds me of like an

00:30:52.860 --> 00:30:55.260
old America you know right like and it's

00:30:55.260 --> 00:30:58.260
like this dilapidated TV repair shop I

00:30:58.260 --> 00:31:00.720
remember when there were TV repair shops

00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:03.240
like in every couple of blocks in New

00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:05.340
York I remember where people you'd have

00:31:05.340 --> 00:31:07.200
to have it close because TVs were heavy

00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:08.880
and there were so many people who needed

00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:10.260
their TVs repaired that you would see

00:31:10.260 --> 00:31:12.360
these all over now you don't see TV

00:31:12.360 --> 00:31:14.940
repair shops at all and the reason is is

00:31:14.940 --> 00:31:16.559
that when they break it's often the

00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:19.080
software that isn't working and people

00:31:19.080 --> 00:31:22.440
say uh it's dead

00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:24.179
we need a new TV

00:31:24.179 --> 00:31:26.159
uh my phone stopped working I need a new

00:31:26.159 --> 00:31:28.919
phone and so we're throwing all of these

00:31:28.919 --> 00:31:30.899
devices that are perfectly serviceable

00:31:30.899 --> 00:31:32.279
if we could just

00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:36.059
update the software into landfill

00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:38.760
and companies are often deliberately not

00:31:38.760 --> 00:31:41.640
updating their old devices to get us to

00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:44.520
buy new devices when the old devices

00:31:44.520 --> 00:31:46.860
work great we just don't have any right

00:31:46.860 --> 00:31:48.720
to replace the software that came on

00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:50.399
them but

00:31:50.399 --> 00:31:53.159
the trick is that for the vast majority

00:31:53.159 --> 00:31:55.380
of these devices we actually do have a

00:31:55.380 --> 00:31:57.360
right we just don't know about it and we

00:31:57.360 --> 00:31:59.880
just don't exercise it

00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:02.399
now it can be different this is a

00:32:02.399 --> 00:32:05.220
picture of a um of a router because

00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:07.980
there's a project called open wrt and

00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:10.799
that project was a result it's a it's a

00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:12.240
free and open source software project

00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:14.220
and that project came out of oh open

00:32:14.220 --> 00:32:15.659
writ people

00:32:15.659 --> 00:32:16.799
um fans

00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:22.200
um so uh that that project came out of a

00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:23.159
um

00:32:23.159 --> 00:32:26.700
uh a lawsuit seeking the source code and

00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:28.740
when the source code it was it was a

00:32:28.740 --> 00:32:30.360
product of a settle of a settlement and

00:32:30.360 --> 00:32:33.059
when the source code came out a whole

00:32:33.059 --> 00:32:33.899
product

00:32:33.899 --> 00:32:37.140
uh was born and now loads and loads of

00:32:37.140 --> 00:32:38.580
people can replace the software on their

00:32:38.580 --> 00:32:39.899
routers and there's a really Vibrant

00:32:39.899 --> 00:32:42.059
Community and in fact it's been good for

00:32:42.059 --> 00:32:44.460
some router manufacturers to make sure

00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:48.360
that their routers are are able to have

00:32:48.360 --> 00:32:50.940
uh are compatible with open wrt because

00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:52.620
people seek it out and so there's a

00:32:52.620 --> 00:32:54.179
there's a business case for it in

00:32:54.179 --> 00:32:56.100
addition and there are other projects

00:32:56.100 --> 00:32:58.140
like this um open wrt is a software

00:32:58.140 --> 00:32:59.760
Freedom Conservancy member project so I

00:32:59.760 --> 00:33:01.320
had to highlight them but there are

00:33:01.320 --> 00:33:03.059
other projects as well that are like

00:33:03.059 --> 00:33:04.020
this

00:33:04.020 --> 00:33:04.980
um

00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:08.640
so it's you know it's it we don't

00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:11.940
necessarily have to just rely on the

00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:13.919
device manufacturers to be the source of

00:33:13.919 --> 00:33:16.080
the software that runs on them raise

00:33:16.080 --> 00:33:17.340
your hand if you've replaced the

00:33:17.340 --> 00:33:19.500
software on a device with a free and

00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:21.720
open source software operating system or

00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:23.820
software of any kind yeah it's like a

00:33:23.820 --> 00:33:25.440
third of the uh like a quarter or a

00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:27.059
third of the audience which is really

00:33:27.059 --> 00:33:28.380
exciting

00:33:28.380 --> 00:33:31.140
um and it's so exciting and Powerful to

00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:32.760
do that because

00:33:32.760 --> 00:33:37.140
well it changes everything often at the

00:33:37.140 --> 00:33:39.419
point where you're in now you're trading

00:33:39.419 --> 00:33:41.399
off some features you might not be able

00:33:41.399 --> 00:33:42.840
to do everything that you could do

00:33:42.840 --> 00:33:45.539
before but you get to decide what

00:33:45.539 --> 00:33:47.159
software you put on it you get to decide

00:33:47.159 --> 00:33:48.179
if you're going to put some of the

00:33:48.179 --> 00:33:50.640
proprietary stuff on it or you decide if

00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:51.960
you're going to keep you know try to

00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:53.940
make as much free and open as you

00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:56.820
possibly can and you decide when and how

00:33:56.820 --> 00:33:58.500
it gets updated some of these projects

00:33:58.500 --> 00:34:00.120
automatically update and that's really

00:34:00.120 --> 00:34:03.299
wonderful for security updates

00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:06.299
um now I I wanted to talk a go back to

00:34:06.299 --> 00:34:08.940
my medical device situation a little bit

00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:10.320
um this is a picture of me it's an old

00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:13.020
picture of me getting my old device

00:34:13.020 --> 00:34:15.000
interrogated

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.639
um and uh and interrogated is basically

00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:19.679
the word they use which is actually it

00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:22.379
sounds very like old spy movie like I'm

00:34:22.379 --> 00:34:25.080
going to interrogate your device but um

00:34:25.080 --> 00:34:27.599
it it just means that it's the reading

00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:29.639
of the device by a piece of equipment

00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:32.460
called a programmer the terminology is

00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:34.619
so confusing but uh but the device that

00:34:34.619 --> 00:34:37.080
reads it is called a programmer and the

00:34:37.080 --> 00:34:39.599
programmer gets the information those

00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:41.580
are have shown to be totally insecure

00:34:41.580 --> 00:34:44.040
also where people have sold programmers

00:34:44.040 --> 00:34:46.080
to the like into the market from

00:34:46.080 --> 00:34:48.659
hospitals that had thousands of patients

00:34:48.659 --> 00:34:53.159
data on them um fascinating stuff but in

00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:54.659
in this instance

00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:57.180
um I wanted to highlight the fact that

00:34:57.180 --> 00:35:00.240
um that my medical saga continues and

00:35:00.240 --> 00:35:02.580
that every time that I have something

00:35:02.580 --> 00:35:04.560
new in my life I realize there are a

00:35:04.560 --> 00:35:06.119
whole aspects of this that need to be

00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:09.560
explored so this week before I came here

00:35:09.560 --> 00:35:12.240
I realized that I needed to find out

00:35:12.240 --> 00:35:13.440
something urgently about my

00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:14.839
defibrillator

00:35:14.839 --> 00:35:16.859
and so I needed to get my device

00:35:16.859 --> 00:35:19.740
interrogated but when I got my device

00:35:19.740 --> 00:35:22.500
replaced the last time which is right

00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:25.440
when this picture was taken I was really

00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:27.839
concerned with the possibility that my

00:35:27.839 --> 00:35:29.820
device would be maliciously hacked I

00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:33.000
told you about my work on outreachy

00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:35.400
a lot of people don't like work on

00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:39.420
diversity programs they they think that

00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:43.140
they are misguided and despite the fact

00:35:43.140 --> 00:35:47.300
that that the

00:35:47.300 --> 00:35:51.839
studies show the impact that um that

00:35:51.839 --> 00:35:53.940
underrepresentation has in the field and

00:35:53.940 --> 00:35:56.640
despite the fact that the tech industry

00:35:56.640 --> 00:36:00.240
is very obviously misrepresented

00:36:00.240 --> 00:36:03.420
um the people are it's a very polarizing

00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:05.820
issue and so I I've actually had a lot

00:36:05.820 --> 00:36:07.980
of threats related to my work on this

00:36:07.980 --> 00:36:12.480
including rape and death threat

00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:14.040
um and I'd like to not think about it

00:36:14.040 --> 00:36:18.300
too often but in getting a new device I

00:36:18.300 --> 00:36:21.359
um I did not want these my device to do

00:36:21.359 --> 00:36:23.880
what all of these devices do which is to

00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:26.900
broadcast incessantly all of the time

00:36:26.900 --> 00:36:29.460
and previously without very good

00:36:29.460 --> 00:36:32.280
encryption especially earlier on and so

00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:35.339
we're security protection and so I got

00:36:35.339 --> 00:36:38.339
the one device that was available in the

00:36:38.339 --> 00:36:41.520
U.S market where you could switch off

00:36:41.520 --> 00:36:43.680
the remote Telemetry the broadcasting

00:36:43.680 --> 00:36:45.480
component I got the only one device I

00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:47.520
called all the device manufacturers I

00:36:47.520 --> 00:36:49.380
had a great nurse practitioner who

00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:51.240
helped me out she and I sat in a

00:36:51.240 --> 00:36:52.500
conference room and we called all of the

00:36:52.500 --> 00:36:55.079
device manufacturers biotronic was the

00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:57.599
most hilarious because they said oh you

00:36:57.599 --> 00:36:59.280
don't have to worry about ours our

00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:02.040
device is hack proof and I was like

00:37:02.040 --> 00:37:04.320
really biochronic why do you think that

00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:06.839
you're hack proof oh because

00:37:06.839 --> 00:37:08.579
Medtronic has been shown to be

00:37:08.579 --> 00:37:11.339
vulnerable and uh Saint Jude has been

00:37:11.339 --> 00:37:13.320
shown to be you know uh guidance has

00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:15.119
been shown to be vulnerable but we've

00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:16.079
never I was like well that's because

00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:18.180
you're the fourth size and when people

00:37:18.180 --> 00:37:20.880
are showing the vulnerability of these

00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:22.200
devices they're not going to go with the

00:37:22.200 --> 00:37:23.460
fourth most popular they're going to go

00:37:23.460 --> 00:37:25.440
with the most popular could you send me

00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:28.020
some devices and I'll I'll get some

00:37:28.020 --> 00:37:29.760
volunteers and we'll test it I'm still

00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:31.380
waiting

00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:33.540
um but uh but I didn't get a biotronic

00:37:33.540 --> 00:37:35.579
device I got a device manufacturer that

00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:37.680
that I could switch off the radio

00:37:37.680 --> 00:37:39.839
telemetry so my device is not

00:37:39.839 --> 00:37:41.640
broadcasting which means that I can't

00:37:41.640 --> 00:37:44.579
use like um uh like they have a lot of

00:37:44.579 --> 00:37:45.960
black boxes that people can have in

00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:47.700
their homes that will monitor their

00:37:47.700 --> 00:37:49.020
devices

00:37:49.020 --> 00:37:50.820
um but it also means that when I got

00:37:50.820 --> 00:37:53.280
this device that company is a very large

00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:55.079
European company with a very small

00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:56.760
presence in the United States but they

00:37:56.760 --> 00:37:58.320
were very present in the United States

00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:00.359
when I got my device

00:38:00.359 --> 00:38:02.160
um and it was great because it's a very

00:38:02.160 --> 00:38:05.400
high quality device and when I got it uh

00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:07.980
I got it years ago and it still has

00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:10.460
enough battery life for 10 to 15 years

00:38:10.460 --> 00:38:13.500
which is a very long time and it's very

00:38:13.500 --> 00:38:15.359
exciting because it means I won't need

00:38:15.359 --> 00:38:17.760
surgery for that period of time so that

00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:20.880
would be just wonderful however when I

00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:23.040
needed to get my device interrogated I

00:38:23.040 --> 00:38:26.119
found out that the device

00:38:26.119 --> 00:38:29.400
manufacturer representative who is the

00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:33.119
one who has this programmer in New York

00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:35.220
had gone out of the country

00:38:35.220 --> 00:38:38.880
and guess what there was no backup rep

00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:41.280
no one there was literally nowhere I

00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:43.740
could go in New York City some hospitals

00:38:43.740 --> 00:38:45.300
have the devices but none of them were

00:38:45.300 --> 00:38:47.400
available for me to go to

00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:50.099
I could not get the information off of

00:38:50.099 --> 00:38:53.160
my defibrillator I just was out of luck

00:38:53.160 --> 00:38:55.440
and I was just suddenly put in that same

00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:57.900
position as those Vision patients I

00:38:57.900 --> 00:38:59.520
could really feel I mean it's very

00:38:59.520 --> 00:39:01.200
different situation I'm still functional

00:39:01.200 --> 00:39:04.680
it's a or I mean I still my heart is

00:39:04.680 --> 00:39:06.900
still is not completely reliant on this

00:39:06.900 --> 00:39:09.300
defibrillator it's preventative but I I

00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:12.060
could unders I could taste that how how

00:39:12.060 --> 00:39:15.420
hard that is and the realization that I

00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:18.780
may need to get surgery to replace a

00:39:18.780 --> 00:39:20.760
perfectly functional device simply

00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.160
because this manufacturer has decreased

00:39:23.160 --> 00:39:24.960
their presence what good is a

00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:28.320
defibrillator if if it can't be if you

00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:29.760
can't get the information you need when

00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:32.339
you need it it's not um it's not all

00:39:32.339 --> 00:39:33.720
Bleak it's really fascinating there's

00:39:33.720 --> 00:39:35.040
some really excellent work that's been

00:39:35.040 --> 00:39:36.980
happening in the insulin pump space

00:39:36.980 --> 00:39:40.680
where people have actually exploited old

00:39:40.680 --> 00:39:42.960
insulin pumps and the fact that they

00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:45.300
have a security vulnerability and they

00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:47.880
use it to create another device that

00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:50.099
talks to their insulin pump to deliver

00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:52.740
insulin in a much more precise Way open

00:39:52.740 --> 00:39:55.079
API yes and it's a really amazing

00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:58.760
movement and so I want to like you know

00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:01.140
amazing things happen when you let

00:40:01.140 --> 00:40:03.240
patients actually take control of their

00:40:03.240 --> 00:40:05.700
devices the stories in the insulin Pub

00:40:05.700 --> 00:40:09.000
space are amazing because there are kids

00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:11.460
that have insulin pumps whose parents

00:40:11.460 --> 00:40:13.859
are Technical and are able to precisely

00:40:13.859 --> 00:40:16.560
monitor their insulin delivery one story

00:40:16.560 --> 00:40:20.760
that I heard was a kid who uh who had

00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:23.400
gone to the nurse's office at school

00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:25.980
almost every day for a whole Academic

00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:29.460
Year and then after using this was only

00:40:29.460 --> 00:40:31.680
in the nurse's office like three or four

00:40:31.680 --> 00:40:34.680
times it's the amazing stuff and it this

00:40:34.680 --> 00:40:36.480
is life life changing right and this is

00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:38.339
what happens when we allow patients to

00:40:38.339 --> 00:40:40.619
engage in their care and allow people to

00:40:40.619 --> 00:40:42.780
control their technology and as I said

00:40:42.780 --> 00:40:44.400
it's not just medical devices medical

00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:46.560
devices are poignant but we have all of

00:40:46.560 --> 00:40:49.200
these ways that we can take control of

00:40:49.200 --> 00:40:50.339
our technology if we have the

00:40:50.339 --> 00:40:52.980
opportunity we can get together and we

00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:56.220
can form the um the organizations that

00:40:56.220 --> 00:40:58.500
can do this work we don't have to rely

00:40:58.500 --> 00:41:00.839
on these particular companies who like

00:41:00.839 --> 00:41:03.060
my medical medical device manufacturer

00:41:03.060 --> 00:41:06.480
may just not be tuned into are concern

00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:08.880
we may be in a part of the world where

00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:10.500
that company doesn't really have an

00:41:10.500 --> 00:41:12.599
interest or doesn't have expertise

00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:15.180
we may that company may not have a very

00:41:15.180 --> 00:41:18.119
diverse team the um if you've heard the

00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:19.680
an amazing

00:41:19.680 --> 00:41:23.579
um there's an amazing uh story about the

00:41:23.579 --> 00:41:25.079
that was all over Twitter a few years

00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:27.540
ago of a um

00:41:27.540 --> 00:41:29.220
soap soap dispensers and there are

00:41:29.220 --> 00:41:30.420
actually multiple brands of soap

00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:32.940
dispensers where if someone with light

00:41:32.940 --> 00:41:34.920
skin puts their hand under the soap

00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:37.920
dispenser it works great but if someone

00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:40.140
with dark skin puts their hand under the

00:41:40.140 --> 00:41:41.880
same soap dispenser nothing happens

00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:43.680
because they were relied on light

00:41:43.680 --> 00:41:45.900
reflection in order to determine whether

00:41:45.900 --> 00:41:48.260
to dispense soap and they're just

00:41:48.260 --> 00:41:50.700
obviously it was known with dark skin on

00:41:50.700 --> 00:41:52.740
that testing team otherwise they would

00:41:52.740 --> 00:41:55.740
have known right so we need to make sure

00:41:55.740 --> 00:41:57.900
that we are engaged with the creation of

00:41:57.900 --> 00:41:59.520
our technology that our technology has

00:41:59.520 --> 00:42:01.200
created diversely and that we don't

00:42:01.200 --> 00:42:03.599
leave it up to these companies who are

00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:06.240
only interested in their profit margins

00:42:06.240 --> 00:42:07.859
you know like

00:42:07.859 --> 00:42:09.359
they don't want disasters to happen

00:42:09.359 --> 00:42:10.920
because their profit margins are often

00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.740
aligned with public health but their

00:42:13.740 --> 00:42:18.119
goal is their profits so what can you do

00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:21.300
first of all please you're here so I

00:42:21.300 --> 00:42:22.560
think you're probably doing this already

00:42:22.560 --> 00:42:24.780
but have a dialogue about the big

00:42:24.780 --> 00:42:26.880
solutions that are possible I am

00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:30.359
astounded still as an American that gdpr

00:42:30.359 --> 00:42:34.079
happened and filled with gratitude for

00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:35.820
the protection that it is spilled over

00:42:35.820 --> 00:42:38.280
to the United States and if you would

00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:40.320
ask many people prior to it we would

00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:43.020
have said it was not possible there is a

00:42:43.020 --> 00:42:45.240
possibility for Mass reform if we look

00:42:45.240 --> 00:42:48.300
in every selection every way right if we

00:42:48.300 --> 00:42:50.160
look towards advocating for better

00:42:50.160 --> 00:42:54.300
legislation requiring the publication of

00:42:54.300 --> 00:42:57.000
of source code and giving users rights

00:42:57.000 --> 00:42:59.460
we can talk about making sure that we as

00:42:59.460 --> 00:43:02.460
consumers buy copy left of products we

00:43:02.460 --> 00:43:05.400
can talk about how we can we can create

00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:08.400
solutions that we can rely on and none

00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:10.740
of the solutions that will move us to a

00:43:10.740 --> 00:43:12.599
world with software Freedom will happen

00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:15.420
overnight none of them are easy they are

00:43:15.420 --> 00:43:17.460
all hard I was talking to somebody about

00:43:17.460 --> 00:43:21.240
this recently and I I said ah yes it's

00:43:21.240 --> 00:43:23.280
like trying to ask everyone to give up

00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:25.859
Amazon how do we do that now right none

00:43:25.859 --> 00:43:28.380
of these things are easy but they are

00:43:28.380 --> 00:43:29.940
important and they are Broad and

00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:31.319
sweeping and they are only going to

00:43:31.319 --> 00:43:33.960
happen with coordinated dialogue

00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:36.960
you everyone here in this room and

00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:40.740
listening on the live stream you are the

00:43:40.740 --> 00:43:44.160
tech savvy population you are the top

00:43:44.160 --> 00:43:47.160
knowledgeable people it is time for all

00:43:47.160 --> 00:43:49.740
of us technologists to stop relying on

00:43:49.740 --> 00:43:52.619
big tech for our Solutions I was in a

00:43:52.619 --> 00:43:54.619
meeting with some of the most

00:43:54.619 --> 00:43:58.079
influential Tech rights organizations in

00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:00.060
the world and they are advocating

00:44:00.060 --> 00:44:02.760
against Google by using Google Docs and

00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:06.420
Google infrastructure we are using all

00:44:06.420 --> 00:44:07.740
of these solutions that big tech

00:44:07.740 --> 00:44:09.420
provides us because they are convenient

00:44:09.420 --> 00:44:11.099
but they are not in our long-term

00:44:11.099 --> 00:44:13.260
interests and we have Alternatives that

00:44:13.260 --> 00:44:15.540
are ready now if you want to collaborate

00:44:15.540 --> 00:44:17.460
on a document we at software Freedom

00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:19.020
Conservancy maintain an ether pad which

00:44:19.020 --> 00:44:20.700
etherpad is also a software Freedom

00:44:20.700 --> 00:44:23.339
Conservancy member project you can use

00:44:23.339 --> 00:44:27.380
video chat using uh jitsi this is the

00:44:27.380 --> 00:44:29.400
meat.jit.c is the link

00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:31.079
um I really have to give a plug for a

00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:32.339
big blue button because it's designed

00:44:32.339 --> 00:44:34.680
for academic use and I think you should

00:44:34.680 --> 00:44:37.920
all join the charge to get this

00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:40.079
University to switch to big blue button

00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:42.720
it is perfect for that solution I have

00:44:42.720 --> 00:44:44.460
loved teaching classes on it and I think

00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:46.940
it works great and it's very stable

00:44:46.940 --> 00:44:48.720
and then

00:44:48.720 --> 00:44:50.760
go ahead and if you have old devices

00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:52.619
just play and put an alternate

00:44:52.619 --> 00:44:54.660
Distribution on it as many of you have

00:44:54.660 --> 00:44:56.460
if you have a phone try putting lineage

00:44:56.460 --> 00:44:58.740
or something else on it if you've got a

00:44:58.740 --> 00:45:00.540
laptop if you're just trying it out for

00:45:00.540 --> 00:45:02.760
the first time Ubuntu or Debian is

00:45:02.760 --> 00:45:04.500
really really great and you can save old

00:45:04.500 --> 00:45:06.599
equipment from going into landfills and

00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:08.940
make them perfectly useful if more

00:45:08.940 --> 00:45:11.280
people use it we have this like amazing

00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:14.880
spiraling situation where we don't have

00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:16.740
the buy-in for a software Freedom

00:45:16.740 --> 00:45:18.599
Solutions and so those Solutions

00:45:18.599 --> 00:45:21.780
continue to degrade and they get a

00:45:21.780 --> 00:45:23.099
little bit worse and a little bit worse

00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:25.319
over time because people say oh it's

00:45:25.319 --> 00:45:27.540
just so convenient I'm going to use you

00:45:27.540 --> 00:45:29.220
know I'm gonna I'm gonna use the the

00:45:29.220 --> 00:45:31.440
Apple product or I'm going to use um you

00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:34.920
know the the Google suite and over time

00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:37.920
we're just making more of that happen so

00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:40.859
we have to we have to buy into it the

00:45:40.859 --> 00:45:42.420
other thing I have to ask each and every

00:45:42.420 --> 00:45:44.579
one of you to do

00:45:44.579 --> 00:45:47.160
when you buy something if you see a

00:45:47.160 --> 00:45:49.560
license notice in it that says you have

00:45:49.560 --> 00:45:50.819
rights with respect to some of the

00:45:50.819 --> 00:45:52.680
software in this device and you get the

00:45:52.680 --> 00:45:55.800
manual that has the licenses in it if it

00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:57.180
says

00:45:57.180 --> 00:45:59.880
if it says ask for the source code by

00:45:59.880 --> 00:46:02.940
emailing this address please do it ask

00:46:02.940 --> 00:46:05.520
for it because right now only people who

00:46:05.520 --> 00:46:07.500
are really interested in modifying their

00:46:07.500 --> 00:46:09.660
software in a very intent way will ask

00:46:09.660 --> 00:46:11.520
and then companies it's very easy for

00:46:11.520 --> 00:46:13.680
them to ignore it even though the people

00:46:13.680 --> 00:46:15.599
who are asking are the ones who are

00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:16.740
going to make software that everyone

00:46:16.740 --> 00:46:18.540
else is going to use

00:46:18.540 --> 00:46:20.460
because only one person or a few people

00:46:20.460 --> 00:46:22.319
a handful of people asks the company

00:46:22.319 --> 00:46:23.819
thinks nobody cares and they're not

00:46:23.819 --> 00:46:25.560
taking it seriously and that's one of

00:46:25.560 --> 00:46:26.579
the things that we see over and over

00:46:26.579 --> 00:46:29.760
again until uh we contact them being the

00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:30.960
software Freedom conservancy and they

00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:32.520
get nervous that we might take action if

00:46:32.520 --> 00:46:34.800
they don't listen to us nothing nothing

00:46:34.800 --> 00:46:36.540
happens and the reason why we file that

00:46:36.540 --> 00:46:39.420
consumer rights suit was basically so

00:46:39.420 --> 00:46:41.400
that anyone who asked for the source

00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:43.740
code will be taken seriously

00:46:43.740 --> 00:46:45.839
um and then please support and engage in

00:46:45.839 --> 00:46:47.339
the organizations that are trying to

00:46:47.339 --> 00:46:49.500
make these changes possible

00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:51.599
um there's Ulysses on this you know

00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:54.480
that's active here and I understand they

00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:56.819
have a like an open source job fair that

00:46:56.819 --> 00:46:58.740
happens in this very building

00:46:58.740 --> 00:47:00.119
um like engage in these local

00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:01.560
organizations because this is how we're

00:47:01.560 --> 00:47:02.940
going to build the infrastructure that

00:47:02.940 --> 00:47:05.220
will make a change it's funny because

00:47:05.220 --> 00:47:08.339
when I was a student there was software

00:47:08.339 --> 00:47:10.339
Freedom like you could easily replace

00:47:10.339 --> 00:47:12.599
your the software on any of your devices

00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:15.359
and it was super easy you had a fully

00:47:15.359 --> 00:47:17.099
free device that you had complete

00:47:17.099 --> 00:47:18.300
control over

00:47:18.300 --> 00:47:20.339
um but it was it was it was kind of hard

00:47:20.339 --> 00:47:21.900
to do and it was kind of a niche thing

00:47:21.900 --> 00:47:24.960
and now free and open source software is

00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:27.540
everywhere and in everything but we

00:47:27.540 --> 00:47:29.160
actually have far less software freedom

00:47:29.160 --> 00:47:31.079
than we ever had before because we can't

00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:33.300
do anything with any of our devices it's

00:47:33.300 --> 00:47:34.859
the lower layers that are free and open

00:47:34.859 --> 00:47:36.119
and the only way we're going to change

00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:38.220
that is by banding together and

00:47:38.220 --> 00:47:40.319
supporting these organizations so I

00:47:40.319 --> 00:47:41.520
think I've gone a little bit long but I

00:47:41.520 --> 00:47:44.160
think we have time for questions

00:47:44.160 --> 00:47:46.980
um great so thank you so much and I

00:47:46.980 --> 00:47:49.560
would love to hear your questions please

00:47:49.560 --> 00:47:52.140
are you moderating the questions

00:47:52.140 --> 00:47:59.780
okay thank you

00:47:59.780 --> 00:48:04.079
no you might have to just come here

00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:07.200
let's open something it's collaborative

00:48:07.200 --> 00:48:09.839
collaborative okay I don't have a

00:48:09.839 --> 00:48:12.599
microphone so if you would like to ask a

00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:13.980
question please

00:48:13.980 --> 00:48:15.300
um

00:48:15.300 --> 00:48:17.660
speak very loudly

00:48:17.660 --> 00:48:21.540
yes floor is open there please go ahead

00:48:21.540 --> 00:48:28.940
Shout

00:48:28.940 --> 00:48:41.400
your Hardware security researcher

00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:42.839
yes

00:48:42.839 --> 00:48:45.420
please all Hardware security researchers

00:48:45.420 --> 00:48:49.760
please email compliance at

00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:52.079
sfconservancy.org we have a lot of work

00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:54.599
that we would love for you to do

00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:56.880
um yeah there's I mean there's there's

00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:59.700
so much there's so much and um you know

00:48:59.700 --> 00:49:02.220
we are we are a tiny organization we

00:49:02.220 --> 00:49:05.099
have uh six people on staff

00:49:05.099 --> 00:49:06.540
um and we run our internship program

00:49:06.540 --> 00:49:10.079
that has 130 people every year we have

00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:13.020
our 50 member projects that are building

00:49:13.020 --> 00:49:15.300
Alternatives and we're we do the

00:49:15.300 --> 00:49:17.339
lawsuits and protect copy left and we do

00:49:17.339 --> 00:49:19.079
all that with a really small staff and

00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:20.819
we rely on a lot of volunteers and

00:49:20.819 --> 00:49:22.859
that's really important because we're

00:49:22.859 --> 00:49:25.440
funded by the public primarily and

00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:28.079
grants and um and and a huge amount of

00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:29.700
our work is done by volunteers and

00:49:29.700 --> 00:49:31.980
that's important not just because

00:49:31.980 --> 00:49:34.020
um it gets the work done but it's also

00:49:34.020 --> 00:49:35.579
because it shows us that this work is

00:49:35.579 --> 00:49:38.220
important it's not enough that I think

00:49:38.220 --> 00:49:41.460
it's important it's it it has to be that

00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:43.560
we as a community think that this is

00:49:43.560 --> 00:49:45.000
important and can work together so I'd

00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:49.619
love to talk to you about that

00:49:49.619 --> 00:49:52.200
someone else question

00:49:52.200 --> 00:50:00.540
of time these

00:50:00.540 --> 00:50:03.839
how

00:50:03.839 --> 00:50:05.819
how can company

00:50:05.819 --> 00:50:07.319
thank you how can companies be

00:50:07.319 --> 00:50:09.599
incentivized to um to publish their

00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:10.920
source code

00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:13.680
um and how can we get them to do it

00:50:13.680 --> 00:50:15.300
um you know on their own and I've been

00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:18.060
wondering this for forever I thought I

00:50:18.060 --> 00:50:19.740
you know honestly I was so naive when I

00:50:19.740 --> 00:50:21.359
started this work I really thought that

00:50:21.359 --> 00:50:24.180
this is one of those areas where the

00:50:24.180 --> 00:50:26.880
corporate interests and the public good

00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:29.220
were aligned I really thought that the

00:50:29.220 --> 00:50:32.119
business case for open source

00:50:32.119 --> 00:50:36.119
would carry the day and that in fact and

00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:38.880
I think I think that The Originators of

00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:41.700
the software Freedom ideology also

00:50:41.700 --> 00:50:43.740
thought that and so many of the early

00:50:43.740 --> 00:50:46.079
developers especially for example the

00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:47.760
Linux kernel developers and other

00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:50.099
original projects like that that were so

00:50:50.099 --> 00:50:52.859
ideological and so forward-thinking were

00:50:52.859 --> 00:50:55.319
so excited when they started when their

00:50:55.319 --> 00:50:57.720
collaboration yield amazing results and

00:50:57.720 --> 00:50:59.760
those results started getting adopted by

00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:01.920
technology companies they it was

00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:03.960
suddenly like we've made this like we've

00:51:03.960 --> 00:51:06.540
this has happened because we've created

00:51:06.540 --> 00:51:08.099
something so useful that companies want

00:51:08.099 --> 00:51:10.559
to use it and then companies hired all

00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:12.900
of those people and now a very high

00:51:12.900 --> 00:51:16.200
percentage of those developers work at

00:51:16.200 --> 00:51:18.059
companies to work on those products and

00:51:18.059 --> 00:51:20.160
many of them work on things that they

00:51:20.160 --> 00:51:21.480
think are important to improve the

00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:22.800
software and many of them are still

00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:25.140
ideological but the idea that we could

00:51:25.140 --> 00:51:28.680
do well by doing good was flawed because

00:51:28.680 --> 00:51:31.859
we have put so many of our resources in

00:51:31.859 --> 00:51:36.300
into into corporate interest into into

00:51:36.300 --> 00:51:38.220
things that companies find either

00:51:38.220 --> 00:51:42.059
palatable or profitable and what becomes

00:51:42.059 --> 00:51:45.420
overlooked is our ability as a public to

00:51:45.420 --> 00:51:48.059
do with our devices what we want to our

00:51:48.059 --> 00:51:50.040
ability to stay free from surveillance

00:51:50.040 --> 00:51:52.500
our ability to make sure that you know

00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:54.960
we're not only not being spied on but

00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:58.440
that we can use our devices not only for

00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:00.540
their intended purpose or other purposes

00:52:00.540 --> 00:52:04.380
right I it's currently difficult to find

00:52:04.380 --> 00:52:06.000
a product on the market that doesn't

00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:08.400
phone home like there are smart

00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:10.619
toothbrushes where they're taking video

00:52:10.619 --> 00:52:12.839
of your teeth to send back to a

00:52:12.839 --> 00:52:15.180
centralized company and then also taking

00:52:15.180 --> 00:52:17.280
video of everything else in your house

00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:19.800
and these companies are trying to

00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:21.420
collect as much information as they can

00:52:21.420 --> 00:52:23.160
because they want to be able to Pivot

00:52:23.160 --> 00:52:24.540
whatever business model that they can

00:52:24.540 --> 00:52:26.880
and this is so Insidious that it's very

00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:28.680
hard to predict what the interests will

00:52:28.680 --> 00:52:30.059
be of those companies in the long run

00:52:30.059 --> 00:52:31.800
and what we have found is that without

00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:35.160
text checks and balances the free and

00:52:35.160 --> 00:52:36.839
open source software is just exploited

00:52:36.839 --> 00:52:40.319
and what we need is to have a public

00:52:40.319 --> 00:52:42.960
focused component of it there we used to

00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:44.880
people used to say

00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:46.859
from like the old days and I know that

00:52:46.859 --> 00:52:48.839
some of you here are have been involved

00:52:48.839 --> 00:52:50.520
in the community for a long time and

00:52:50.520 --> 00:52:52.440
some of you are new and haven't

00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:54.240
experienced it a lot but in the old days

00:52:54.240 --> 00:52:56.640
people would say free software is an

00:52:56.640 --> 00:52:59.460
ideological movement and open source is

00:52:59.460 --> 00:53:01.680
commercial and I used to fight so hard

00:53:01.680 --> 00:53:05.040
to say that's not true because open

00:53:05.040 --> 00:53:07.859
source sounds like it's just about

00:53:07.859 --> 00:53:10.800
seeing the code but everyone would tell

00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:12.240
you that it's not open source if you

00:53:12.240 --> 00:53:14.339
don't have the ability to modify it and

00:53:14.339 --> 00:53:15.900
free software it sounds like it's just

00:53:15.900 --> 00:53:17.040
about price

00:53:17.040 --> 00:53:19.140
but it is about rights and it's really

00:53:19.140 --> 00:53:21.119
about the same thing if you look at the

00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:23.819
definitions they're they effectively say

00:53:23.819 --> 00:53:26.940
the same things in the end but what was

00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:30.599
true about that that I missed is that is

00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:33.859
that we can't have it all we have to

00:53:33.859 --> 00:53:36.420
prioritize the public good we have to

00:53:36.420 --> 00:53:38.280
prioritize our ability to take control

00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:40.380
of our of our technology

00:53:40.380 --> 00:53:44.040
and I don't know I I guess I'd say that

00:53:44.040 --> 00:53:46.440
we've tried that experiment of trying to

00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:48.599
make it interesting and exciting for

00:53:48.599 --> 00:53:50.220
companies and what happens is they

00:53:50.220 --> 00:53:52.319
engage only as much as they have to they

00:53:52.319 --> 00:53:53.940
give up only as much as they absolutely

00:53:53.940 --> 00:53:56.040
have to so the only way to incentivize

00:53:56.040 --> 00:53:58.260
them is to legislate it so that they

00:53:58.260 --> 00:53:59.760
must do it

00:53:59.760 --> 00:54:02.940
or we incentivize them by every single

00:54:02.940 --> 00:54:05.640
one of us only buys products that have

00:54:05.640 --> 00:54:07.619
copy left it software in them and we

00:54:07.619 --> 00:54:09.300
tell companies that we're doing it we

00:54:09.300 --> 00:54:11.040
asked for the source code when they

00:54:11.040 --> 00:54:13.079
don't provide it we say well I'm never

00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:14.640
going to buy your device again

00:54:14.640 --> 00:54:16.200
and I'm telling everybody else I'm

00:54:16.200 --> 00:54:18.300
writing an article to my local paper I'm

00:54:18.300 --> 00:54:19.980
going to find an alternative where I can

00:54:19.980 --> 00:54:21.180
get the source code and I'm going to

00:54:21.180 --> 00:54:22.680
support it I think I think it's the only

00:54:22.680 --> 00:54:25.020
way because otherwise we're just kidding

00:54:25.020 --> 00:54:29.059
ourselves

00:54:29.059 --> 00:54:31.500
okay I think there's time for one more

00:54:31.500 --> 00:54:32.819
question

00:54:32.819 --> 00:54:40.800
please

00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:43.500
oh this is such a great question how do

00:54:43.500 --> 00:54:45.900
you manage the risks and liability what

00:54:45.900 --> 00:54:47.099
if somebody working on your

00:54:47.099 --> 00:54:49.980
defibrillator gets it wrong and the

00:54:49.980 --> 00:54:52.380
secret answer like the real answer to

00:54:52.380 --> 00:54:55.260
this question is that software is full

00:54:55.260 --> 00:54:57.180
of liability because software is

00:54:57.180 --> 00:54:59.520
vulnerable and just because something is

00:54:59.520 --> 00:55:02.819
free and open source doesn't mean that

00:55:02.819 --> 00:55:05.579
it is any any more vulnerable in fact

00:55:05.579 --> 00:55:07.440
it's the opposite way around and

00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:10.319
security researchers have found that

00:55:10.319 --> 00:55:12.180
devices that have free and open source

00:55:12.180 --> 00:55:14.640
software there's like a more complicated

00:55:14.640 --> 00:55:15.900
answer to this that I'm going to skip

00:55:15.900 --> 00:55:17.819
but uh but they call what you're talking

00:55:17.819 --> 00:55:20.460
about security through obscurity so if

00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:22.380
you don't publish the source code then

00:55:22.380 --> 00:55:24.720
you're safe but in fact that's not the

00:55:24.720 --> 00:55:27.240
only like there are many ways to you can

00:55:27.240 --> 00:55:28.800
talk to the general in the back there

00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:32.160
are so many ways to or I'm sorry for

00:55:32.160 --> 00:55:33.540
generating the person in the back I

00:55:33.540 --> 00:55:35.280
don't know why I did that I apologize uh

00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:37.319
but um but there are so many ways that

00:55:37.319 --> 00:55:40.440
you can that you can you can show a

00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:42.599
device be vulnerable and exploited and

00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:45.059
so having real Security on devices

00:55:45.059 --> 00:55:46.740
having

00:55:46.740 --> 00:55:48.900
um you know having encryption having

00:55:48.900 --> 00:55:51.660
real security not this not security

00:55:51.660 --> 00:55:53.760
theater I mean that's really where it's

00:55:53.760 --> 00:55:56.819
at I for example I want the software on

00:55:56.819 --> 00:55:58.680
my device to be published and available

00:55:58.680 --> 00:56:01.440
for review but I want there to be I

00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:03.660
don't want any I want there to be either

00:56:03.660 --> 00:56:06.000
a password or encryption or some way

00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:07.920
that only my device can tell and that

00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:09.540
and that's and that's real because

00:56:09.540 --> 00:56:12.420
previously these devices had no had none

00:56:12.420 --> 00:56:13.920
of that before but this device the

00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:15.660
software wasn't published and so

00:56:15.660 --> 00:56:17.579
researchers show that you could just

00:56:17.579 --> 00:56:19.859
cause them to shock people unnecessarily

00:56:19.859 --> 00:56:21.540
you could get information off of those

00:56:21.540 --> 00:56:23.819
devices so

00:56:23.819 --> 00:56:25.859
the question is like how do we manage

00:56:25.859 --> 00:56:28.380
our software liability and it's scary

00:56:28.380 --> 00:56:31.079
stuff but having the software public

00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:32.819
means that it can be reviewed and it can

00:56:32.819 --> 00:56:34.500
be tested and yes there might be times

00:56:34.500 --> 00:56:35.819
where

00:56:35.819 --> 00:56:37.920
um where folks who are malicious may be

00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:40.079
able to find an exploit by Examining The

00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:41.940
Source Code but because there are so

00:56:41.940 --> 00:56:43.619
many exploits available without access

00:56:43.619 --> 00:56:45.059
to the source code

00:56:45.059 --> 00:56:47.579
it's just one of the benefits vastly

00:56:47.579 --> 00:56:49.079
outweigh the

00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:52.020
um you know the risks in my in my view

00:56:52.020 --> 00:56:54.540
and as we develop more infrastructure

00:56:54.540 --> 00:56:56.040
around free and open source software

00:56:56.040 --> 00:56:57.180
projects we'll find that to be the case

00:56:57.180 --> 00:56:59.099
an example perfect example of this is

00:56:59.099 --> 00:57:00.660
the Linux kernel which is considered to

00:57:00.660 --> 00:57:04.740
be one of the most secure kernels and

00:57:04.740 --> 00:57:08.339
that has been free and open for

00:57:08.339 --> 00:57:12.059
about 30 years

00:57:12.059 --> 00:57:14.520
oh I said well I I did we said one more

00:57:14.520 --> 00:57:16.319
can I do more okay one more before but

00:57:16.319 --> 00:57:20.760
yeah okay

00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:22.859
how does right to repair ah how does

00:57:22.859 --> 00:57:24.180
right to repair fit into the goals of

00:57:24.180 --> 00:57:25.800
the software Freedom Conservancy if it

00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:28.859
were not abundant yet from my talk

00:57:28.859 --> 00:57:30.960
software freedom is the software right

00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:32.220
to repair

00:57:32.220 --> 00:57:33.599
so

00:57:33.599 --> 00:57:36.359
in order to be able to repair any modern

00:57:36.359 --> 00:57:40.260
equipment we need software Freedom you

00:57:40.260 --> 00:57:42.480
cannot effectively repair anything

00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:45.000
without being able to have the software

00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:47.400
right to repair and what's cool about

00:57:47.400 --> 00:57:49.319
copy left licensing and why I spent so

00:57:49.319 --> 00:57:52.200
much time on the Vizio suit is that we

00:57:52.200 --> 00:57:54.180
have a right to repair in all of these

00:57:54.180 --> 00:57:55.619
Linux devices

00:57:55.619 --> 00:57:58.619
I mean the Vizio TVs had I forget how

00:57:58.619 --> 00:57:59.400
many

00:57:59.400 --> 00:58:01.260
um different kinds of software on it I

00:58:01.260 --> 00:58:04.859
think 22 22 copy lifted projects on it

00:58:04.859 --> 00:58:06.960
it wasn't just the Linux kernel loads of

00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:09.359
software that give us these rights the

00:58:09.359 --> 00:58:11.280
rights to get complete and corresponding

00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:12.720
source code and the scripts to control

00:58:12.720 --> 00:58:15.420
installation so we should be able to do

00:58:15.420 --> 00:58:17.520
something about this but we haven't been

00:58:17.520 --> 00:58:19.079
able to yet in part because companies

00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:20.819
just don't do the right thing they don't

00:58:20.819 --> 00:58:22.980
they don't think about the fact that

00:58:22.980 --> 00:58:25.619
they have to publish their source code

00:58:25.619 --> 00:58:27.839
before they go to market then they go to

00:58:27.839 --> 00:58:30.540
market and they scramble in general we

00:58:30.540 --> 00:58:33.059
we've talked to loads and loads of

00:58:33.059 --> 00:58:35.099
companies about their non-compliance and

00:58:35.099 --> 00:58:37.020
what turns out is that often as I said

00:58:37.020 --> 00:58:38.220
they don't even have the software

00:58:38.220 --> 00:58:40.020
themselves because they never ask for it

00:58:40.020 --> 00:58:41.700
from their vendors to begin with and

00:58:41.700 --> 00:58:43.140
they didn't put if they developed it

00:58:43.140 --> 00:58:45.119
in-house they did put the process in

00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:46.920
place to begin with so they don't have

00:58:46.920 --> 00:58:50.339
the infrastructure in place they don't

00:58:50.339 --> 00:58:52.559
even employ the employees that worked on

00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:53.940
the developers that worked on that

00:58:53.940 --> 00:58:56.579
software back then those people have

00:58:56.579 --> 00:58:58.559
often left the company and moved on to

00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:00.839
other projects and so they just don't

00:59:00.839 --> 00:59:03.000
even have the resources to be able to

00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:04.859
find that software later which is

00:59:04.859 --> 00:59:06.240
terrifying because it means that if

00:59:06.240 --> 00:59:07.680
there's a problem with their products

00:59:07.680 --> 00:59:09.540
they basically have to recall them

00:59:09.540 --> 00:59:11.220
there's nothing left that that can be

00:59:11.220 --> 00:59:13.260
done so in order for us to make sure

00:59:13.260 --> 00:59:15.240
that that changes we have to be louder

00:59:15.240 --> 00:59:17.339
about it and we have to make these

00:59:17.339 --> 00:59:18.720
companies realize that there is

00:59:18.720 --> 00:59:20.119
liability

00:59:20.119 --> 00:59:22.740
for their you know for their

00:59:22.740 --> 00:59:24.359
non-compliance because that will

00:59:24.359 --> 00:59:27.240
incentivize them to comply

00:59:27.240 --> 00:59:35.960
foreign

00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:40.079
are evoking but I was told that yeah we

00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:41.819
should close the session after one hour

00:59:41.819 --> 00:59:43.619
maybe there are students that are still

00:59:43.619 --> 00:59:45.960
having to do some exams I don't know

00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:48.119
wishing them good luck in that case of

00:59:48.119 --> 00:59:51.480
course but uh most of all I would like

00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:54.540
you to invite you to share with me the

00:59:54.540 --> 01:00:02.339
Applause for Aaron once more

01:00:02.339 --> 01:00:04.980
and you know you still have to put four

01:00:04.980 --> 01:00:06.180
more

01:00:06.180 --> 01:00:08.460
uh in two days I think the second yeah

01:00:08.460 --> 01:00:11.579
two days from now when you will get this

01:00:11.579 --> 01:00:14.760
Armory uh award from our University

01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:16.980
someone else will give it to you I would

01:00:16.980 --> 01:00:18.900
love to do it but that's uh we

01:00:18.900 --> 01:00:23.880
definitely

01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:25.200
um

01:00:25.200 --> 01:00:28.380
being here with Ken thanks so much

01:00:28.380 --> 01:00:31.380
foreign